As the guardian of a dog who is unconvinced of my leadership skills, I wonder how much her perception of our relationship should matter to me. Neither of us minds the other’s delusions of leadership. My dog has a good sense of what the limits are and will push them relentlessly, but backs off if I tell her to, usually. I figure it’s hopeless trying to change her unless I change my attitude. What do you think?

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Bob!
Well, I agree that it's hopeless to change her unless you change your attitude, but it sounds like she already respects you a lot if she usually backs off when you ask her to.
KP

The field of "dog trainer" has to be one of those groups that is among the most affected by charlatans.

I've never seen so many incompetent people that take money and don't help dogs or their people at all.

And too many of them are connected to the freaky dog breeding world.

The majority of the "dog trainers" that I've seen slamming Cesar are those that are hugely JEALOUS of his success.

I have watched a couple of Millan's shows and read his second book. Usually, I disagree with his training techniques. I am a strong user of positive dog training. Millan uses a lot of references to dogs being like wolves. Although wolves are dog's ancestors, domestication has turned the dog into something different. His approach would be more natural when it comes to looking at dogs like they are wolves. Most of his techniques are old fashioned. They are methods my parents used with their dogs. I find many of his methods to be more heavy handed. Positive dog training is a newer and more effective approach to training dogs. I have never had to use a citronella collar. And crates are much more humane then a shock collar would be. And having heard/read/seen a lot of him, I can usually come up with a different method then he uses, and a more gentle one as well. The positive views of him you came up with are a given, most training methods view those as things needed to have a good relationship with your dog. But my dogs and I don't see each other as a 'pack.' I let my dogs do a lot of things Millan discourages, and my dogs have yet to become the 'pack leader.'

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Marie,
Saying that a crate is more humane than a shock collar isn't saying much!
I disagree that the positive things I mentioned with regard to Cesar Millan are a given with other trainers. I haven't heard other trainers talking about changing yourself and your thoughts, for example, in order to help your dog. Please cite other trainers who talk about these things and I'll look into it.
Thanks!
KP

KP: I'd like to know what other trainers you have watched, or books you have read written by some of the leading behaviorists right now?

Cesar likes to throw the "pack" word around. But, dogs are not wolves, they evolved to fill a different nich than wolves did in the world. Also, dogs, when given free choice, do not live in packs. Visit a country with free roaming dogs, or read a book by someone who has studied them (other than ceasar). They don't live in packs. They live alone or with one other dog, maximum. Their puppies don't stay with them for much longer than two months. Wolves live in packs because they are hunters, it is adventageous to them to have a group to hunt with. Dogs don't have leaders in their natural world, though they do make friends.

Dogs are scavengers. They evolved eating off peoples feces and garbage. It is adventageous for them to be "every man for himself" in that regard.

I don't feel like a "pack leader." My dog most certainly follows me. He is my friend, I am his teacher, his guide. He is a foreigner in a human land, and I teach him what he needs to survive and thrive here. I do not "discipline" him. Though, he does have discipline. He waits for his meals until I let him know they are available, for example. I do not tell him "no" ever. I believe dogs can only learn what TO do and his training reflects this. We enjoy lots of outings and fun together, and some neat dog sports too.

Most other trainers are similar to cesar milan in that they believe that exercize, changing ones way of thinking and emotional state, are important aspects to training. I wonder what books you have read, so you can compare other trainers to Ceasar.

And, yes, I have watched many episodes of his show. It honestly makes me so upset to watch how he treats the dogs, and the signs of discomfort and fear that the dogs are showing, that I can hardly stand to watch it.

If you'd like, perhaps we could watch an episode on the same day, and I could point out some of the fearful body language/sometimes abject terror that the dog is exhibiting.

>>>KP's Response:

I have to wonder why you keep posting without using your name or including your e-mail address. I have a feeling that you're the one I asked to stop harassing me with e-mail messages. Am I right?
Regardless of what you think about the way dogs behave in the wild, they certainly respond to a "pack leader" when they live with humans, whether that's a natural state of affairs or not. It's pretty hard to argue with Cesar Millan's pack of 40 dogs who all get along together. I'd like to see most dog trainers try to duplicate that. Maybe you don't feel like a pack leader, but if your dog is following you, then you are the pack leader, whether you want to be or not.
We will just have to agree to disagree on Cesar Millan. I don't need you to point out fearful behavior in dogs to me, but thanks for offering.
I'm glad you and your dog enjoy your life together--that's great.
KP

Oh and the

"More you are a pack leader the more your dog will love you" thing...

I believe the more you are the facilitator of the wonderful things in life the more your dog will love you.

The more you strive to always be "safe" to your dog, the more they will love you.

Yelling "tssstttt" and pinching ones dog in the neck, collar corrections, (hitting) he hit a member of his "pack" in the filming of the patti labelle episode, glares, looming, hard eye contact brings out submissive appeasement behavior, cronic licking stress behaviors that many people think are "love."

>>>KP's Response:

Yes, "Anonymous," being safe is good, but rules are a must with dogs as well. Obviously, hitting and pinching and yelling aren't acceptable, but I don't think it's possible to yell, "Tssst"--it always comes out in a whisper.
KP

The crate isn't inhumane at all, I was being a bit sarcastic. I don't like shock collars, and I don't like choke collars. But both are bad techniques and I would find it difficult to support someone who so readily used those, but not support a type of training where their worst negative is a crate. Everyone must think dog when training a dog. Humans are the main cause of behavior problems in dogs, thus, you have to think dog in order to act dog. That is the first step to becoming a good dog trainer. I've never heard of anyone training a dog a different way. One of my favorite dog trainers is Jean Donaldson.

If in order to show your a pack leader you have to have forty dogs, then no wonder most other dog trainers don't do that! And he also has all that money to take care of forty dogs too, and I doubt he does it all by himself. Dogs do need rules, but dogs can't thrive off of rules. Millan preaches all about putting affection last, but he must put it at the very, very end. I've never see him praise a dog, only tower over. His endless comparisons between dogs and wolves are way off as well. He pretends dogs are wolves, but no wolf would ever tolerate being treated the way he treats them. On top of that, most of his training methods are harsher, some times even dangerous! And yet it's still being broadcasted on millions of televisions worldwide. In my opinion, only his popularity and fame is keeping his archaic training methods alive and well.

Cesar is not a dog trainer and in his books he tells you himself. He does not teach them to sit or lay down, he does behavior correction and usually for dogs that really need it. Positive training is for the sit/stay thing but NOT for correction. Have you ever tried to give your dog a treat or praise when he's trying to bite someone or attack another animal. Yah, not going to work.
When used properly his tools are not to hurt the dog but give it a bite like another dog would do. SHOCK COLLARS ARE USED ONLY IN THE MOST EXTREME CASES. When dogs are this bad they are a threat to everyone animal and human. They can cause serious injury or death. If this does happen then the animal has to be put down. Crates can be useful if your dog is not 100% good when your gone to keep them and your house safe. NOW BEFORE ALL OF YOU GET MAD AT ME PLEASE UNDERSTAND- when used properly these methods(except shock collar) should not hurt your pet, but leave it up to the worst people to turn anything into an abusive act (i.e. lone hours or permanent confinement in a crate and using a choke collar to actually choke the animal) these methods were not intended to be used like this.

Jane,
positive dog training does not stop at teaching a dog to sit. When dogs are how bad? So if one of my dogs starts lunging at other people's throats I should immediately resort to a harsher kind of training? Millan's training methods are outdated. Positive dog training is up to date and you don't need to imitate things like one dog biting another.

Hi Marie,
Please tell us how you would handle it if your dog started lunging at other people's throats.
KP

KP,
I have to say I agree with you. The Cesar Milan show, while not ALWAYS right, does tend to look at things a little differently.

I once observed a 'dog training' session at Petsmart(which I no longer go to due to the horrible animal conditions). It was all about teaching the dogs a rhythmic act, not about changing the way the human acts and reacts to things to make sure the dog understands what he's doing.

Not every episode is about an animal trying to attack someone, there are simple cases of anxiety and Cesar is very stingey with the treats.

Love doesn't equal food but love DOES equal praise and the fastest way to a dog's heart is through his tummy.

Great blog.
Thanks!

Char

How can you people say that Cesar's methods are outdated? Dog Phsycology is not the same as Dog Training. For those of you that don't have more than one or two dogs how can you say they are not pack animals because they are domesticated. I'm sorry to say but they most certainly are pack animals and still have the genes today from their wolf ancesters. Gene's never go away, they may not be as predominate but they still exist. I also live in the country were dogs do travel in family packs. Family packs being dogs that grow up together or live together. They also develop territory and mark it like a pack of wolves and even occasionally will fight with other dogs/packs to increase territory. I use Cesars methods of Dog Psycology and my dogs love me regardless of how many treats I give them. Treats only make a dog fat. My dogs get high quality food and If I gave them alot of treats it would offset the nutritional content of the food unless you already feed a low quality food which in case many people already do. Treats in my mind are junkfood unless you give them meat treats like venison. You people need to learn first hand what it is like dealing with aggressive dogs before you make a descision based on a video or book. Cesar does not correct dogs that don't need correction, only dogs that people like you mess up because you let them run your life! Being a pack leader is alot more stress on a dog than the corrections Cesar does.

If my dog started lunging at other people's throats? Well, I would first want to know why he was doing that. Of course, it wouldn't be the dog's fault, it would be the human's fault. And of course, it depends on the type of aggression. Dog aggression would be treated differently from fear agression. However, in each case I would take each bad situation and turn into into something good. I wouldn't tower over or pin the dog to the ground. How harsh! For example, my aunt's rottie has had some bad experiences with dogs. Whenever a dog barked, she was start to get nervous and growly. My aunt used a posetive method to solve that; every time a dog barked, her rottie got a whole bunch of treats. Now, whenever the rottie hears a dog bark, she instantly connects that barking with a yummy doggy treat. In that situation, there was no dominance, and no negativity. Now, why can't everything be treated like that? Millan skips the treats, and goes right to it being a 'dominance problem' and tells the owners to be 'a pack leader.' That's what I hear, or read, in every case. If your kid was afraid of swimming, would you push the kid in a pool? Or would you start slowly and try to turn that situation into a fun and exciting experience?

>>>KP's Response:

Thanks, Marie. But you have not yet told us how you would handle it if your dog started lunging at other people's throats. What specifically would you do to solve this problem differently from the way Cesar would typically solve it?
KP

I've read the two books of Cesar Millan and I've been watching his Tv program since the first season. My reason for doing so is that he's not TRAINING dogs and teaching people how to control them, but REHABILITATING DOGS by TRAINNING PEOPLE. The whole concept is pretty amazing to me because for the first time somebody had the courage to tell us how absurd we are, and how much we HURT our own "babies" as we always call them. I think that he's method is as natural as it could be, for "he's imitating Mother Nature" as he always say. I've never, EVER, seen any kind of cruel, inhuman, or unkind treatment from him to the dogs. If you want to know about whay he uses some tools, please read the last book. Then you'll discover that there are not human or inhuman tools, it's all about how YOU use them. And about if treat's method is better than Cesar's way, I think that the whole discussion is irrelevant because the first one is just positive reinforcement for doing something as it was required; a reward, period. On the other hand, the Cesar's way is canine psychology.

About those who said : "dogs are not as wolves" or put an example about positive reinforcement where hers relative rewarded his dog with a bunch of treats for have been barking or every time the dog heard other dogs barking. Just let me ask you.... Were those jokes? Those are your arguments against a man who daily rehabilitates aggressive pit-bulls and rottweilers? I repeat, a man who have rehabilitated and saved the very life of hundreds of deadly aggressive dogs!! How could you??

Jokes, Faby? Of course not! I meant everything I wrote. Do you own a wolf? I don't. Millan acts like dogs are wolves, but wolves would not go for Millan's whole dominance ploy. And neither do dogs. When I train my dog something, I don't train her by showing her how much more dominant I am then her, I train her by using positive techniques. I'm sure Millan helps dozens of dogs. But that's not to say he is using the correct methods to do that. Some other dog trainers have even had to help dogs after Millan is done with them! Quite simply, because his methods are outdated. They work, but why use his methods when new research shows a better, more positive way to train.

P.S. Please, when you talk about aggressive dogs don't use Pit Bulls and rotties as an example! They're such great dogs, I hate to see them used in a bad light!

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Marie,
I think we do have to distinguish between normal dogs and dogs who are all screwed up and have to be rehabilitated. Cesar's clients are almost all dogs who are psychologically damaged. It's similar to the difference between how you would correct a normal teenage boy who misbehaves and a juvenile delinquent who misbehaves. They're not likely to respond in the same way, because the delinquent is hardened to normal interactions.
You still haven't told us what specific techniques you would use to rehabilitate a dog who wants to lunge at a human's throat. I'm pretty sure that treats aren't going to be as effective as they would in a normal dog who is learning how to "sit" or "come."
KP

Actually, I was going to have someone else answer that for me. A family member. Luckily, I have not dealt with that kind of thing yet, so I asked for her help. Hopefully she'll be responding soon!
But dogs aren't people. And even with people, why treat a person who has already been treated badly, with more harsh treatments? Just because I dog is lunging at someone's throat does not mean affection will not bring this dog around. My first dog had been abused and chained outside during her puppy hood. She wasn't socialized, scared of men, loud noises, and even her own reflection! She has already had a hard and difficult life, so why would I have towered over her or pin her to the ground? Using positives methods, and plenty of affection, she is now a wonderful, wonderful dog. Of course, she will never be at the same level at properly socialized dogs, she's always have that small speck of distrust. But now she warms up to men very quickly and doesn't flinch when I vacuum. And that was done using a positive training method. Having seen a lot of shelter dogs, and owning a couple of my own, I see a lot of psychologically damaged dogs. But Millan's way of training is not the only one. Positive training does not stop at sit and stay. People do hear less of other methods though. Millan is a popular figure on TV, and as such, a lot of people are going to assume his is the only way.
And having been a child myself, I responded better to my parents talking calmly to me then them by shouting at me. Dogs are naturally more submissive. Wolves more dominant, dogs more submissive. So you don't need to deal with a dog's behavior problems by being dominant, they get it and they'll readily accept it. So while Millan's technique's are certainly speedier, they're unsafe and could harm the dog. I know few dogs who don't love treats! And trying to feed a dog a treat while it's going for someone's throat won't work. You'd have to go at a much slower pace then that!

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Marie,
Well, first of all, Cesar doesn't shout at the dogs he works with, so I'm not sure why you even brought up shouting.
Secondly, scared dogs are not the same as aggressive dogs, so of course, they're going to be treated accordingly. It's pretty easy to rehabilitate a scared dog, especially if you don't care how long it takes. I'm concerned about the aggressive dogs, and I'm surprised that you would denounce Cesar's method when you yourself don't know what you would do with a dog like that.
I don't understand your aversion to corrections. If you have a child or a teenager who does something aggressive (perhaps stealing something or trying to poke another child's eye out), do you ignore it and just try to redirect and give rewards when it stops? I don't think that will be effective. There has to be a correction. No, it doesn't have to be and shouldn't be harsh and horrible, but the dog (or child) needs to understand when something isn't acceptable, especially if it's dangerous to others.
KP

When in my last comment I mentioned Pit Bulls and Rottweilers, was because those are two of the most powerful breads of all. Therefore, if somebody can deal with them, when they are extremely aggressive without getting hurt, that means a lot. I absolutely agree with Marie's comment about that dogs of those breeds could be the most lovable dogs.

Please read what I said about shouting again KP. I wasn't talking about Millan shouting at his dogs. And scared and aggressive dogs are totally alike! Both have been harmed in some way by a human. Scared dogs might hide while aggressive dogs attack, but in both cases humans were the cause. Because of that, you don't want to scare them more! Which is what Millan is doing. If he pins an aggressive dog to the ground he is scaring the dog into submission. Not what an already abused dog needs.
I denounce Millan's method because I know what method he would use. Fear and domination. And If I ever have to deal with an aggressive dog, I will NOT be using either of those. I have not dealt with an aggressive dog before, but that does not mean I have to automatically agree with Millan's methods.
When a child does something like that, you're absolutely right. You correct them, but you don't scare or dominate them into obeying you. The same for a dog. When a dog is good, they get attention, praise, and treats! They do something bad, and they get ignored. By doing that the dog realizes that he will get nothing by being bad but will get everything by being good. That same logic doesn't sit the same with kids of course, but this is about dogs. Not kids.
I hope no dog trainer cares how long it takes to rehabilitate a scared dog compared to an aggressive dog! If you try to rush an aggressive dog's training, how is that helping the dog?

P.S. Thanks, Faby. I was just making sure. But any good dog trainer should be able to handle a dog of any size! Pinning a rottie down might be difficult for a smaller person, so that's why I would use a different method. Of course that's not to say an accident might not happen. But I have no respect for Millan when he is putting himself in unnecessary danger.

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Marie,
Of course, you don't want to scare dogs as a training method, but I think you're really exaggerating how much fear Cesar is causing to the dogs he rehabilitates. He's speaking their language, so it's something that they use and understand among themselves. We don't pin each other to the ground, but dogs certainly do. And I just don't see how ignoring an aggressive dog's aggression is going to make it stop. I think you need to try that in the real world before you promote it as a method that works.
Scared and aggressive dogs may be alike in the cause of their problems, but their impact on the people and animals around them is completely different. One of them is likely to kill and maim.
KP

Wow! There is a lot of info to read through here on this blog, I have never been much of a blog reader myself but this topic is very intriguing.
So let me begin with saying that I do not agree with Caesar Millan at all. I would never work with a dog using his methods nor would I encourage some one else to. I do believe he is a knowledgeable dog person and has a good understanding of dogs and their needs. His methods have helped many dogs and I don't think many people could disagree with this fact. With that being said, I don't think his methods are the best possible way to handle and work with dogs. I have been involved in rescue for many years, everything from being shelter supervisor, fostering countless dogs, acting as a board member for private rescue, you name it I have done it. In the shelter mindset, if someone came to me and said the only way I can keep my dog is if I use Caesar Millan's method, I would say great! Because there are to many dogs that need homes and every person that is willing to work with their dog through a problem is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately I think humans in general look for the fastest, easiest solution even if that means it not being completely effective and/or permanent. With Caesars methods, you have immediate response, with positive based training (which is not just food, depending on the individual dog) you will not see results right away, it takes time because you are changing the way a dog associates with the problem i.e., cats, other dogs, men, etc. It has taken most dogs years to learn a behavior and it will take months for them to learn a new one depending on the situation. In spite of what Caesar shows - much like touching a hot stove - people are not dumb nor are dogs - you are not touching that stove again.
Caesar does offer, exercise, rules, schedule, consistency - which is the foundation for all dogs, and all trainers. So I don't care if you use positive or negative reinforcement (which is what Caesar uses) if you don't have the whole package than you are no good. That would be like accepting a heart surgeon if he had only learned how to cut you open but was not be able to suture you closed..... what good what that be?
There is a big difference with a 'petsmart trainer' and a Caesar millan. A Caesar Millan works with behavior modification and a Petsmart trainer teaches the basic, sit, down, stay etc which by the way, repetition is the only way a dog does learn these behaviors. I tend to group petsmart, petco trainers, etc. in the category of obedience trainers where Millan works with 'issues' a behaviorist.
Caesar use's 'dominance all to much, some how everything in the dog world became a dominance issue and nine times out of ten this is just not the case. So in my opinion using Caesar's methods of negative reinforcement (what he calls the 'bite') is not necessary. Does it work? Yes, sometimes. Is it the best, kindest, most humane method NO way!!!!!!
So lets take aggression for example - aggression can be dominance based, fear based, territorial based, genetically based, maternal based, etc. So each aggression issue has a different root cause. One that is based in fear is not going to be treated the same way dominance based would be. A socially deprived dog will be fearful but depending on the dog (temperament, breed, genetics) will display different behaviors on encountering the 'fear' some will avoid and other will progress towards the 'fear'. So you can not apply same rules to every situation. You must look at the individual dog and find the root cause of the issue. If someone came up to you and started biting you (in dog terms) or yelling at me (in human terms - thus the shouting comment posted by Marie) every time you jumped up, based on humane and dog behavior you would respond in one or two ways, compliance or aggression - my guess is that National geographic does not show the footage of the dog that chooses aggression. I personally would respond with more aggression - especially if I was fearful. However if someone assessed my temperment and than based their approach on their findings, I am betting I would not be on the defensive and they would see permanent, long lasting results a relationship built on trust and history not fear.
So my last comment is the question of how would a positive based trainer/bahaviorilist deal with a dog lunging for a persons throat? I will try to be as direct as possible.
Take a full history of the dog
Take a full history of the family that will be dealing with the issue
Asses any immediate danger and make adjustments as need be
Find out all aggression that the dog has shown since birth
Find patterns of when dog is aggressive/lunges
Once I have found the pattern - I than can find the root of the problem
Start working with name recognition and eye contact
Start using classical conditioning to change the dogs view/association of the person/people to a neutral, positive association - this is where the methods can change drastically depending on dog to dog.
Set up pretend encounters with people, using safe people, safe distance and gradually increase the contact with dog and fear, of course this is all based on the dog has had the foundation established (exercise, routine, consistency, schedule) at home
As you work with the dog you will see the beginnings of trust, confidence, and above all the dog enjoying it - you will see a permanent, wanted change in the dog.
With that being said - there are dogs that can only be managed - due to extreme abuse and/or temperament - you can improve on behavior but never remove the behavior completely and unfortunately there are not enough qualified owners that can work/handle these dogs.

Dogs to it to each other. But people aren't dogs. Just because the dogs do it, doesn't mean we should. That's how dogs communicate with each other. But as people we can learn different, and sometimes better, methods to deal with dogs. While pinning another dog down works for the dogs, it does not mean it will work for the human.
Please read what I said on the ignoring part. I think you misunderstood. Scared and aggressive dogs may act different in the beginning. But even a scared dog can get to a point where it will attack.

wow, where to start. First let me say, Marie must have the fattest dogs in the world with all the treats she throws at them.
After reading all of these posts I am wondering how many of you pay any attention to Caesar's show at all?? Even after he has "rehabilitated" the human he says that they must continue to work with the dog. His methods are not a 15 minute clip from the show.
Also, dog's most certainly do behave as packs and follow pack leaders. Even a mother will teach her pups by biting on the neck and pinning them.
Obviously all of us here love dog's and animals in general, I'm sure we agree on that. But, I myself would not let a dog control my home. That dog that you throw treats at to "train" it will learn nothing more than how to control you to give it more treats. I don't see the positive in that. Now, a dog that is well behaved and does it for nothing more than pleasing you seems a lot more positive for both you and the dog.
With all of that said, I would actually like to see Caesar show more praise to the dog that does something good. (praise does not equal treats)

HEY I LOVE CESAR MILLAN I THINK HE IS GREAT AND DOES WONDERFUL THINGS FOR DOGS....I TRIED TO USE SOME OF HIS METHODS MYSELF DONT EXACTLY GET THE SAME RESPONSE BUT STILL TRYING....I ALSO DONT BELIVE IN CRATES BUT FOR THE MOMENT I HAVE TO USE THEM BECAUSE I HAVE TWO PUPPIES WHO STILL ARENT COMPELTELY HOUSED TRAINED ONE IS BASICALLY THERE AND THE OTHER IS VERY FAR FROM BEING THERE NOT SURE IF IT IS MARKING OR WHAT HIS PROBLEM IS....IF SOMEONE COULD GIVE ME ADVICE I WOULD GREATLY APPRICEATE IT BECAUSE HE ALSO PEES IN HIS CRATE SO I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE...

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Carlina!
Please, please, please don't put your puppies back into the crates any more. Obviously, they aren't serving the intended purpose, and if I had to guess, I would say that the one who is peeing inside the crate is suffering from anxiety, which is being exacerbated by the crating. What you need to do is take the puppies outside frequently and regularly and praise them and give them a treat whenever they eliminate outside. Also, don't bring them back inside immediately (or they'll think that peeing means the fun stops). Inside the house, if there is an accident, don't say anything. If you scold or correct, it will make the puppy want to hide from you when peeing, and that's worse. Just clean it up with enzymes, which will eliminate the pheromones that encourage dogs to pee in the same place. He's still a puppy, so give him time. If you have to confine him to one area, please use something roomy, like an exercise pen or an entire room. Good luck!
KP

I agree 90% with you article. However, I do disagree with you points on choke collars. With some breeds, IF USED PROPERLY, they can aid in rehabilitating or training certain breeds of dogs. It simulates the biting action of another dog, which is how the alpha dog keeps the others in line. The key here is that one who uses these, needs to know when they should be employeed. I've watched almost every episode of the Dog Whisperer that I've been able to and I really enjoy it.

Kudos!

Marie,

I have to wonder if you think that a dog is a dog, or if it is a human.

And I agree with Philip, your dog must be the fattest dog on earth. You are NOT PAYING ATTENTION to Cesar's show.

You are only watching what you want to watch so that you can criticize. I also agree with Jane who posted in the middle, that all of these tools can be helpful, IF USED PROPERLY.

That is all.

Philip,
Fat dogs? Not at all! They go for plenty of long walks and all of those treats just burn right off. And I'm not giving them huge treats, just small pieces.
I understand Millan's shows aren't that quick in real life, I have no problem wit that, my problem is with his training methods.
Yes, a mother dog does do that to her pup. But are we dogs? No. That's how dogs talk, communicate, act around each other. They can't step back and just talk about their relationship with each other. As humans we can, and we can step back and say "Okay, I know the dogs do it this way, but I think I can use a different way which is more effective and one that dogs still understand."
Wolves use packs. But if you notice, stray dogs on the streets don't. Some might form a bond together, and two or three dogs in a household will form a pack, but dogs are naturally independent. That's why we don't see stray dogs running around in packs.
A dog that lives to please? That's an old human thing. No dog 'lives to please.' A dog likes praise, but it doesn't live to please. For example, if at your job every time you did something wonderful your boss came in to praise you. Makes you feel good, right? But what would you rather have, the praise, or a bonus? Dogs like the praise, but they would rather have a treat. If a dog is learning to 'control' you to get more treats, then you are doing something wrong.
Maybe all some dogs need is the praise, but not my dogs. And some dogs don't even go for treats, why not a toy? Drug sniffing dogs learn to love towels. And for every drug they sniff out, they get a towel. They go crazy for it! But don't make the mistake that dogs live to please. Dogs are not that simple and don't adore humans quite that much.
When my dogs follow me around the house it's not because they adore me (although I know they love me very much) they know that by following me around it benefits them.

Marie:

I don't think any of us are going to be able to convince you that Cesar's techniques are the most effective and humane ones out there, which is unfortunate, but you are very much entitled to your opinion, however misguided it may be.

I think it's interesting to read your posts and reading about your comparisons of dogs to humans. They are not human, and that does not make them any less important than humans are. Just because we treat dogs like dogs, that does not make being a pack leader harsh.

If we are to respect our canine companions, we must honour them first as dogs. The reason why dogs love, trust and respect Cesar so much is because he meets their needs at their level. It is unfair, in fact, to treat dogs the way we would treat humans. It is INHUMANE to use human psychology when dealing with dogs. Wouldn't it be great for you to communicate with your dogs in a way that they actually understand? They wouldn't have to figure you out, or wonder what you want. Isn't that what good communication skills actually are? Customizing the communication to your audience? Doesn't that make sense perfect sense, Marie?

Dogs DO in fact love to please when their needs are met. Dogs were bred this way (I have a labrador retriever) and it is instintual. I absolutely believe you when you say that your dogs follow you around because they want treats. How sad is that? My dogs want to BE with me-- and everyone else for that matter-- because I help make them feel stable, and provide them with companionship, affection, etc. It's the food that is the bonus and probably the biggest motivator to teach them to do something for the first time. I do not think dogs are as simple as you make them out to be.

It's interesting how we can all love dogs so much, and really disagree on this topic. I understand that it must be difficult to have your philosophies and beliefs challenged by a new ideology... This has been difficult for many schools of thought, ie. the world is not flat. But sometimes, we need to expand our minds to greater possibilities, for our own "betterment".

Nancy,
I suggest you read the book Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. Have you read it? I've read both Millan's book and hers. After reading both, I conclude Donaldson's methods are better. Why? Because she uses positive up to date training methods.
But Millan's techniques aren't new. There's nothing new about them. The training methods he uses are the same kind that my parents used with their dogs. And while effective, there are better methods out there.
Dogs aren't simple. In no way are they. You CAN'T use human psychology to figure out dogs. In today's time, we know more about human psychology then we do dog psychology. That's why I'm always on the lookout for new methods. Where did you get my comparing humans to dogs?
Dogs are dogs. However, Millan treats dogs like they are wolves. You can't use wolf psychology on a dog any more then you can use human psychology on a dog, it just doesn't work out that way.
Labrador retrievers are great dogs. And total human lovers. Most labs I have met would die to get praise. My Airedale is not like that. Although she loves people, she'll work for food more then she will praise. Dogs weren't bred for praise. Not by a long shot. As I said before, my dogs love praise, but they do not live to please me. That would be a sad existence. And yes, my dogs follow me around because it benefits them. Does that mean just for food? No. When they follow me around they know they'll get love, petted, played with, spoken to, walks, and some times even food. I give all of that to them more then anyone in my household. Why would they follow anyone else around when they know they'll get the most from me?
I love dogs very much, and I like to read different topics when it comes to dog training, I want the best for my dogs. So I ask you to read The Culture Clash, I've learned a lot from that book. And do a bit more research into Millan's methods. They're not the most humane, and they're also outdated. But yes, I know you love your dogs very much and that you know dogs very well! It's alright to disagree on different things and I like that, I learn new things about dogs all the time that way!

I own three very pampered english mastiffs,and I also breed them,my babies are very spoiled and very loved when they go home to their new mommies I hope that does not make me a freaky dog breeder.I also had my oldest mastiff at a dog show a few years ago and had a pincher collar on him (that was recomended by my vet because my mastiff was so strong he would pull my shoulder out of place.)the people at the dog show told me I either had to leave or put a choker chain on Ben because the peta people would raise cain.a choker cain would have done way more damage than a pincher collar(and yes I have pinched myself with it)would ever have don.I never have to yank on it with any of my dogs,and they all three are like my children.when I leave the house my older male is the first to jump in the back of the truck to ride.they are also habbit dogs so they can share their love with everyone.I love animals and my husbnd calls me ellie may but i also have a farm and horses that i ride for pleasure.my horse is very loved and well taken care of.I think he is alot happier the way he is than if he was starving to death like many horse are right now.I also agree with alot of the things you all believe in but also sometimes think some of it is off th wall.like the dog trainer thing,my do trainer was great.

I disagree with Cesar Milan's methods, and have found Tamar Gellar's methods to be both very humane and effective. I've also found the show on Animal Planet, It's Me or the Dog, with trainer Victoria Stilwell to also offer many humane solutions to an assortment of behaviorial problems. We've tried her techniques, and they work in real-life, and not just on TV!

"Chris :
How can you people say that Cesar's methods are outdated? Dog Phsycology is not the same as Dog Training. For those of you that don't have more than one or two dogs how can you say they are not pack animals because they are domesticated. I'm sorry to say but they most certainly are pack animals and still have the genes today from their wolf ancesters. Gene's never go away, they may not be as predominate but they still exist. I also live in the country were dogs do travel in family packs. Family packs being dogs that grow up together or live together. They also develop territory and mark it like a pack of wolves and even occasionally will fight with other dogs/packs to increase territory. I use Cesars methods of Dog Psycology and my dogs love me regardless of how many treats I give them. Treats only make a dog fat. My dogs get high quality food and If I gave them alot of treats it would offset the nutritional content of the food unless you already feed a low quality food which in case many people already do. Treats in my mind are junkfood unless you give them meat treats like venison. You people need to learn first hand what it is like dealing with aggressive dogs before you make a descision based on a video or book. Cesar does not correct dogs that don't need correction, only dogs that people like you mess up because you let them run your life! Being a pack leader is alot more stress on a dog than the corrections Cesar does."

Just wanted to say Bravo! to this.

Gia,
Sounds an awful lot like you are seeing wolves, not dogs. Dogs posses a lot of physical traits from wolves. But they posses few other traits from them. Try to do Millan's methods on a wolf. It won't work. Dogs are domesticated, they need to be treated differently.
Not everyone can deal firsthand with aggressive dogs. And there's no reason why we should as long as we books to read. I've read several different books on dog training. I've chosen the best one. I have family members who have dealt with aggressive dogs and they don't use Millan's methods. And in the end, the dog turns out wonderful!
I give my dog's very, very high quality food. They eat better then I do! Treats aren't something to give your dogs as an exception to dog food. And just like their is high quality food, there is high quality treats! My dogs love me too, regardless of how many treats they get. The treats all have to do with the training part, not the loving part.
Millan's methods are not the only dog psychology methods out there. I'm glad Millan's methods work for you. But I suggest you read about other methods before you make any rock solid decision. I've read several different dog psychology books, and I chose the best one. It sounds like you're automatically picking Millan's. Please, read up on some other methods, then tell me what you like about his over other methods.

Hi, I just read the article and some of the comments, and wanted to offer my thoughts. I've lived with dogs all my life, I worked at an animal hospital for a year, and now I petsit. I have heard a lot of negative stuff about cesar, as well as positive stuff, so I went to form my own opinion. We have a dog that we got only a few months ago that is agressive to most people outside the family, so I got his dvd with the focus on agression. Seems like the place you'd see any harsh treatment, if he did use it, right? yes, I saw him hold a dog by its collar while it threw a tantrum, I saw him hit a a couple of dogs to get them to stop what could have been a deadly fight, etc. But I have worked with dogs A LOT, and I have to say I have seen nothing he did, in that movie, and other stuff of his I have seen, that was abusive or not neccessary. I have learned to understand most of dog's body language, and it is amazing to watch him. people say it is impossible for dogs to be "fixed" as fast as he does. I disagree. many human households, to dogs, are like being in a foreign country where everyone immediately starts yammering at you in their language. Then someone comes along and starts talking to you in your language, tells you what's expected. If I was that dog, I'd calm right down.

anyway, I might be rambling here, but I just wanted to say, from the viewpoint of someone who knows dogs, I believe in "the dog whisperer". I have tried his methods with regards to walking dogs, and just last week I walked three dogs, all of them walking beside me with barely any corrections. people thought I must be some sort of miracle worker to get them that well-behaved, but all I did was try a couple of weeks doing what cesar suggests. And it works. That's my biggest criteria. :-)

Tessa,
In my opinion you are a perfect example of someone who should be trying his methods. Millan's methods do work. There are just better ones today that we can use. But not all people know dogs as well as you do. So if his methods work for you, and no harm befalls you or the dog, then go for it! But his program is watched by a lot of people, most of whom know little about dog training. Try these methods in the wrong way, and both dog and human can get harmed. It's not something I encourage other people to do, or watch.
Millan has helped a lot of dogs out there. And he has helped people too. But I think if his methods are going to be used, they should only be used by professional dog trainers.
I understand Millan is using 'dog talk.' But humans aren't dogs. A rabbit may learn dog talk, but the dog still recognizes that, it's still a rabbit! The same with us, dogs appreciate us learning their language, but they know we're not dogs. My bigger concern is how Millan talks to the dogs. He says he's using dog talk, but he's treating dogs like wolves. We need to distinguish between what the differences are between wolves and dogs.

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Marie,
I agree with you that Milan's methods can be dangerous in the hands of someone who can't pull them off. Many people are horrible at dog training because they have poor timing or poor ability to read body language.
But this whole wolf question is really a red herring. Milan's methods work, so it really doesn't matter whether he thinks dogs are wolves or the dogs think he's a rabbit or whatever. He's successful, so it doesn't matter. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
KP

Millan's methods do work. But it's not a matter over if they work or not, it's a matter over if they can work better. As humans, we know a lot of human psychology. But if someday we find out our psychology is a lot like a chipmunk's, then we've just opened a whole new door of possibilities. Yes, the former psychology methods worked, but with new information, they can work better.
That's the same with a dog. For years, dogs have been treated as wolves, they look like wolves, they descended from wolves, and psychology wise they have some things in common with wolves. But new studies are showing today that dogs have less in common with wolves then first thought. So yes, Millan's methods work and in the future, they will always work. But I think they can work better, And I think the biggest mistake Millan makes is by comparing dogs to wolves.

With all due respect, I really have to question the real-world experience of a couple of the posters. I'm not sure what kind of fantasy land we've created for ourselves in which every living being responds perfectly to head-patting, treat-giving love and affection without consequence, but that's not the reality humans live in and it's often dangerous to pretend that's reality for dogs. As an example, if you are caught speeding on the roadways, does the police officer give you a lollipop after you stop? If he did, would you never speed again? Step into the real world, please. :) EVERYONE needs solid structure and discipline ... NOT abuse, but structure. It comes easier to some than others, but it's needed nonetheless.

I think people focus entirely too much on the correction aspect of Cesar's methods (and if you consider what he does inhumane, you wouldn't have liked being me as a child!) He also stresses that it's encouraged to show affection, but AFTER he/she has "submitted." If a child is screaming, being bratty and making a scene in the middle of a grocery store... do you run up to him/her and shower them with kisses (those who say they would clearly either don't have kids or have kids that are a nuisance to everyone around them) -- no, you -calmly- correct the situation. No, you don't need to beat your children into submission, you simply need to remind them that they're behaving inappropriately and it's not acceptable. The same holds true for our furry little friends. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that at their core, they are animals. They're dogs first and companions second... I believe that's one of Cesar's core points and one I wholeheartedly agree with.

His specific methods cannot be realistically applied to all dogs and all situations; which I suspect as one of the reasons there's "don't try this at home" disclaimers. His basic principles, however, are universal. Sometimes two dogs behave similarly for entirely different reasons, however, I don't believe it's rocket science to take the information he provides and apply as necessary to each unique situation. It works and works very well if you have the confidence and judgment to properly pull it off.

Personally, I subscribe to the practice of "pack leader" -- it's quite important to establish dominance. It's not inhumane and again, it goes back to structure. We all need it, even dogs!! At the same time, I follow up submission with reassurance and positive reinforcement. That's really the difference between Cesar and some rather fairy-tale training methods such as clicker. There's a difference between rewarding and bribing. Giving a treat before positive behavior has taken place is negotiation. I have jars full of treats for my faithful lab, however, he is rewarded for positive behavior... I don't buy it from him. :)

I think it's a bit unreasonable to so easily dismiss his methods. Many don't agree with them and that's fine. I'm sure I find other methods such as the clicker method to be equally ridiculous, but armed with the proper mindset, common sense and attitude, his methods are effective and with exception to perhaps shock collars, are not inhumane.

To each his own. The important thing is the little guys and girls have loving homes.

It sounds like this Marie should watch Cesar more often to learn that he finds out why a dog is aggressive before he helps it. Not all aggressive dogs are afraid. He worked with a fear agressive dog by getting low himself and facing away from the dog and allowing the dog to come to him first. Obviously she has no say if she never handled a fear aggressive dog or a dominate agressive dog. Cesar is not harsh he helps dogs differently depending on their history and problem. If you know that trainers had to fix his dogs then please name those trainers. I think it is more of a case that the owner didn't listen to him and decided to pay a cheaper dog trainer than to get the job done right by a more expensive people trainer/dog rehabilitator. Marie, please stop arguing about Cesar when you clearly don't have a ligitimate agruement!

Chris,
have you helped a fear aggressive dog? Or a dominant aggressive dog? I know people who have. They haven't used his methods. I have watched Millan's show. I have read one of his books. I don't like his methods. Now, have you read The Culture Clash? Please read that and check into positive method training before saying that I don't have a good argument.

Hey, WOW everyone makes such good valid points.
I'd like to contribute.

Ceaser's points on dog thinking are accurate! they are based on fact and research.

Wether you can agree with the methods such as collars and crates etc. Is completely down to personal opinion. Yes they get the dog to behave how you wish quickly, but there are a couple of nicer methods.

Wether a dogs behaviour is acceptable or not. is down to one's self. No its not okay for a dog to maul a baby's face.
But yes i would allow a peaceful dog to sit on the couch.!

If you can study millan and his methods, Read his books, and watch his show. then take inspiration on how to treat dogs, ethically yet in your own way. and how to treat all aspects of life! then it must just be positive!?

If any1 agrees please let me know!

Jx

Everyone, please take a look at this link:
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
It's a great site to learn more about what Millan's points are and what he is doing wrong. We are dog people and most of us know little about wolves. Millan's points on dog thinking was accurate at one point. But they're not any more. And in doing more research about wolves, we can also learn how they differ from a domesticated dog.
I also watched and interesting TV show the other day about dogs. When facing a task they can't do, a dog will give up easily and look for a human's guidance. The wolves they used, didn't. They were determined to figure it out on their own and ignored the human. While it's great to understand 'dog talk' we can't use it to talk back. Dogs see us as humans and it's only right we see them as dogs.

Hi Marie, To answer your question "have you helped a fear aggressive dog? Or a dominant aggressive dog?". Yes, I have helped both on several occasions with the dominate aggressive dog being easier to help. Fear aggression tends to take longer because the dogs have to learn to trust. And yes, I use Cesars methods with great success. But at the same time I would not recommend anyone to use these methods. You have to really understand dog phsycology to be able to have success in all aspects. So by hearing your opinion I would not recommend you to use his methods because you would not have success with them. You are entitled to you opinion but you shouldn't bash other peoples methods or opinions. What works for one may not work for another! That is why there are different ways to do just about everything. I will read the culture clash because I do like to keep an open mind and even sometimes combine methods. I have also trained horses by combining different methods to make them work best for me. Also all the methods out there today are "outdated" but they work for different people. Do you really think that any of the methods you see today are new? No, they are not, you just happen to hear more about them but I can guarantee somebody has used them before. I have a whole shelf full books about dogs, dog training, dog phsycology, and behavior and to me Cesar's work best. How many dogs have you owned, own now or worked with? I read in one of your posts that you haven't worked with agressive dogs so that says right there that no, you don't have an agruement! An opinion yes, but arguement NO! Also have you ever watched "A man amongst wolves"? That is a documentary about a human being a pack leader over a pack of wolves.

Higgens, I totally agree with you!

Chris,
I am not bashing other people's training techniques. However, Millan's techniques are outdated. Do they work, yes! Should they be used in mass? No! As you said, you would not recommend other people to use his methods. Because they can be dangerous. You really, really have to understand what you are doing. And most people don't. I would never encourage people to try his methods. However, there are others ones out there that are gentler and more safe.
And those dog methods are relatively new. And we're hearing about them now because they work! They're gentler and more effective. Millan's methods tend to be a 'fix it quick' but don't always last.
My opinion is my argument. I haven't worked with aggressive dogs yet, but hearing about people who have, and studying the different methods, I have an opinion. Will it change while working with an aggressive dog? Maybe. But when I do work with an aggressive dog I will stat will the methods I think will be most effective.
As of now I have two dogs. My first dog, was a mess. She had been chained outside and abused for over a year of her life. She had no socialization, submissively peed, scared of everything, had no training, no house training, and had probably never even been in a house before. It took me a very, very long time, but now she's a wonderful dog. My second dog wasn't quite as a mess. But her previous owners set no boundaries for her and bought her at six weeks of age. She plays inappropriately and has picked up about a billion bad habits. I also has a family member who does a lot with behavioral problem dogs, in addition to picking up training methods from her, I've helped her with some of those dogs.
I have done a lot with dogs. And like you, I will always be on the lookout for other training methods. But even without dealing specifically with aggressive dogs, I know enough to be able to tell if Millan is doing something right or wrong.
No, I have not watched that documentary, but I will look into it. But, it is about wolves. I don't doubt what wolf behaviorists say. I doubt the comparisons between wolves and dogs.

Hi Marie, To answer your quote "Millan's methods tend to be a 'fix it quick' but don't always last."
Millan's methods are not a quick fix but usually get quick results. You have to keep up with it on a regular basis and the same goes for any other method or training. You can't expect a dog you tought to heal or sit years ago to be able to do it right away if you haven't had refreshers now and then. But anyway I am done with this conversation . You must have read the negatives about Cesar before you watched or read any of his books or shows because you are one sided. If I read the stuff on that link before I tried any of those methods I would probably be one sided to. But the differance was I was using similar methods before I even heard about Cesar. And what about Victoria Stillwell? She uses very similar techniques but with a little more praise but I think it is because she is a woman that people don't see that as a negative. But if you watch her shows, she has hovered over dogs, gave leash corrections, used what some people may call "harsh tools" but nobody says anything bad about her! Also what about that phrase on that weblink you gave us "Dogs see us as humans and it's only right we see them as dogs." That's exactly what Cesar is doing, seeing them as dogs, not humans! I wish people would just leave each other alone and let them use whatever methods work best for them without having to create an uproar. Also there are way too many people out there that shouldn't even have dogs regardless of what training methods are used to help their dogs. I have loved animals all my life and help them whenever I can But more often than they realize Animal rights activists do more harm than good and react before getting the details. I'm not going to put any trainer down unless I see firsthand and in person what methods are unexceptable to me. You can not really judge by watching something on TV because they leave alot of important information out. The TV also only emphasizes on the really bad stuff the animal does so doesn't show if any praise is given at all. I have watched every single episode of Cesar and I try to watch all the other dog trainers as well, Including the Monks of New Skeet, Victoria Stillwell, etc. I don't focus on the negatives, that's how I can relate to Cesar and you cannot.

Read negatives about Ceasar? No. I had heard some people dislike them, but I haven't paid much attention, who was I to judge? So I finally sat down and watched the show. And I didn't like it. Maybe there isn't enough time on TV to praise, but certainly there is in a book? I read nothing about praise in the book.
I think you're getting a little off topic. And assuming I just don't read/listen/watch. You want to use Millan's methods? Fine. If you can do it the right way, do it. But don't show it on TV where anyone will feel the need to try it. An 'alpha roll' is inappropriate. It's dangerous for a experienced dog trainer to do let alone a dog owner.
The thing you said about Victoria Stillwell was sexist. Like you, Millan also believes men can handle dogs better then women. He has said so. I believe he said that in season four?
I look at the positives of dog training, but if the negatives outweigh the positive, or if the negatives are BIG, then why would I agree with his methods.
Millan's methods work for you? You know what your doing? No dogs or people get harmed? Great! Sick with it. But if I can't have an opinion about something because I haven't worked with it firsthand, then that's too bad. I'm sorry you feel that way. And if you do feel that way, then there's no point in discussing this, as you said, I have no argument.

Just one more thing. I'm not the one being sexist, it's critics. Just to let you know, I am a woman not a man. I like Victoria Stillwell, Cesar, and the monks and any other trainer/dog phsycoligist that I can get good information from. I take the best traits from each that I learn. The link you posted may not say Cesars name but it does target him!

I thought the link I gave specifically stated Millan's name.
I have no problem with people combining different dog training techniques together. You can't go for the all the training methods of your favorite trainer. Some times different things are more effective on different dogs.
However, the most positives of Millan's techniques are also the most widely used in all training. And just enough of his methods are dangerous and crazy enough for me to not want anything to do with him.
For example: I watched an episode of his the other day. In the episode was a dog that snapped at people. When the dog snapped at him, he grabbed it and held onto the dog until she stopped writhing. It's was horrible! How does that incorporate 'respect' in a dog? It doesn't. That dog was confused and terrified. There are many, many, many other ways to train that dog. All of them, more gentle.
What Millan calls respect, I call fear. If that dog was listening to him afterwards, well why wouldn't she? I would have too if I was scared out of my mind!
I have no problem with using different training methods. But some times you have to rule out the really bad ones. At one point, it was acceptable to shove a dog's nose in urine to house train. Of course, that is no longer in use because it's cruel and ineffective.
There's right ways to train dogs, and then there are just some really bad ones. The reason I disagree with Millan's training methods are because, quite simply, they're usually just not useful!
My dogs respect me. And I got them to respect me by using calm, positive methods. Millan uses fear. Most of those dogs fear him.
So while there is no 'one way' to train a dog. There's good ways and bad ways. Millan uses the bad ways. That's the reason I don't like him and that's the reason I'll encourage people to stay away from his methods.

KP's Response:

Hi Marie,
I fail to see how simply holding onto a dog until the dog stops writhing is abusive. Millan equates the dog's struggle to a temper tantrum, similar to a child's, and I think it's an apt comparison. What do you do when a child has a temper tantrum? You remain calm and you keep the child from endangering anyone and you wait it out, which is exactly what Millan did with the dog. What's so horrible about that? A dog who bites is dangerous and certainly isn't respecting his or her guardian and needs to learn to do so. I think Millan is on the right track there. I doubt if treats would work because the dog could get treats for not biting sometimes but keep biting at other times. And biting is such a visceral reaction that treats really can't compete with a more dramatic response such as what Millan did. It didn't hurt the dog and you don't know that the writhing was out of fear. It was probably out of rage. But it did stop, and the world didn't come to an end.
KP

Comparing a child's temper tantrum to a dog's isn't exactly fair. Honestly, I have never had to raise a kid. And I hope I never have to! But when a kid is screaming like that, it's not fear. It's anger.
What may have a first been anger in the dog, turned to fear. If I tried that with my dogs, I can honestly tell you they would be scared out of their minds.
Millan is calm, but that dog certainly wasn't! I know that Millan tries to talk to dogs in their own language. But in a dog fight, a dog shows fear, and the other dog backs off. If it was all rage, he was only empowering it. That poor dog had to admit defeat at some point, and if I was that dog, I would be sure to stay away from him for sure! That was installing fear, not respect.
Now, giving treats at the right time does have an effect. That quick of an effect? No. But what does that dog want? A treat! Most dogs work for food much harder then for just your praise and affection. A dog might bite in different situations, but that dog will learn that biting gets them no treats. Doesn't mean you won't have to work through many different situations. But, to me, that's okay.
Millan is not a dog. And that dog knew it. She knew that she was mad, then scared, and this stranger was rendering her helpless. It's not correct dog talk, especially for a human to use. That dog got scared!
Maybe the world didn't come to an end. But it brought more problems for that poor dog. Fear. And for a dog that was already snapping, you don't want to install fear in her as well.
Millan's way of dealing with that poor dog was bad. It was dangerous for both human and dog. And if that's the only way to deal with a situation like that, that's horrible! When people hit a dog that solves nothing. It stops the dog for a moment. That dog will back down in fear. Next time you go to hit a dog, that dog will know what is coming and will fight back. I wouldn't be surprised if the dog started fearing being picked up. She doesn't know if she's getting picked up for a good or bad reason. So she'll attack.
I put that training technique of his in the same category as hitting a dog. Maybe no pain, but it involves the same emotions. It doesn't matter if that hitting causes no pain at all. You can heal up wounds. But the dog still carries the behavior problems from that abuse. So, yes, I think what Millan was doing was abuse. It brings about the same emotions as hitting, only no pain.

I thought I was done with this post until I saw your quote "But in a dog fight, a dog shows fear, and the other dog backs off" If I bring a dog into my pack that is afraid, the other dogs will attack or go after the dog that is in fear. Not Back off! Dogs go after insecure dogs. I have a kid so I know that if the kid or dog is having a tantrum it is best for the safety of either the kid,dog or others around them if they are prevented from injury which is best obtained from firmly but calmly holding them. If you don't like Cesar, then so be it. But let people decide on their own what works best for them unless they ask your advise. Treats would not have been the best way to train that dog in that situation! Also not all dogs are food motivated and with some using food/treats can create problems.

Chris,
when my parents were kids this is how they house trained a dog: they shoved it's nose in dog urine! But if what you say is true, then maybe we should have just let them be. After all, it may not have been the most effective way, but it worked!
You are saying the exact same thing.
I feel sorry for your dog. Your dog doesn't know what you are doing. Maybe you can explain it to your kid, but not your dog. When you hold your dog, you are forcing fear upon that dog. Does it click in dog's heads: Oh! I get it, by holding me, they're really helping me. They don't. What do you suggest, every aggressive dog I meet I should hold on to until they get what I'm doing? No. Hitting a dog brings about the same emotions as clinging onto a dog. Fear, which can escalate into attack mode.
Some dogs aren't food motivated. One of my dogs is a little pig, the other could care less. So while treats work with one, toys work for another. Some times a dog just wants praise, nothing more. It all depends on the dog, like people, dogs have different things which motivate them. Praise is good and all. But let's use an example: let's say every time you do something right you get ice cream. But let's say what you like more then ice cream is cotton candy. Every time you do something good, you get cotton candy. It would really get your attention. Now, every time you do something bad, you don't get any cotton candy. Wow! Suddenly, doing something bad seems ten times worse. You really, really like that cotton candy! Now, you know every time you do something good, you get something awesome!
The same with a dog. My dog like praise, but she likes treats more. She tries her best to get those treats, because she's really motivated to get them. Notice how the only negativity involved in that is not getting something she really, really loves. There's no abuse, fear, or anger involved.
Millan's methods work best for you? Great! But I don't think they're the best for your dog. When it comes to training my dogs, I want what's best for them. Really, what's easier for most people is to train quickly. But that's not fair to your dogs.
As for your dog going after an insecure dog...I believe you. But they back off at some point, don't they? Millan wasn't backing off. Millan says things such as a 'calm submissive state' and says that's what your dog needs to be at. But I don't think holding a writhing dog is 'calm' or 'submissive'. So does that mean your dog should be calm and submissive only at some times? Or is he just not practicing what he preaches?
And again, please don't compare your kid's tantrums to a dog's! They're nothing alike! I'm sure your kid is just angry. I think if your kid became petrified you would back off. After all, you don't want to scare your kid to death. Dogs aren't like humans in that they hate, or just have uncontrollable rage. The poor little dog he clung to wasn't filled with uncontrollable rage, she just didn't know how to handle the situation, she had never been taught.

Q "As for your dog going after an insecure dog...I believe you. But they back off at some point, don't they? Answer: Not unless the insecure dog calms down and becomes submissive. If the insecure dog didn't settle down other dogs would most likely kill it. This is why is it very important for an overly aggressive dog to be calm and submissive.
Q "Millan wasn't backing off. Millan says things such as a 'calm submissive state' and says that's what your dog needs to be at. But I don't think holding a writhing dog is 'calm' or 'submissive'. So does that mean your dog should be calm and submissive only at some times? Or is he just not practicing what he preaches?" Answer: Yes you want you dog calm and submissive at all times. A dog can still play and be submissive.
Q "And again, please don't compare your kid's tantrums to a dog's! They're nothing alike! Answer: There are very alike, but you wouldn't know since you don't have kids. Q "I'm sure your kid is just angry. I think if your kid became petrified you would back off." Answer: Wrong again! If a kid became petrified or angry you continue to hold him/her in a calm way until the kid calms down, the holding is only if the kid was throwing a tantrum that may pose as a threat to injure him or others.
As for my 6 dogs (5 huskies and 1 lab/rott mix), I have never had to hold my own down because I conditioned them from the start that I was their pack leader. The most I have ever had to correct them was with a light touch to the neck, enough to just break their concentration. But I have worked with alot of dogs that are allowed to get away with alot and those ones have to be corrected. Also if you paid enough attention you would hear that The dogs Cesar works with are usually the owners last chance, alot of them have gone to "Other" trainers first. They alot of times tell the owners that the dog needs to be put down (killed)! Now what is more cruel, a dog being put down (killed) or being held calmly until the dog relaxes?

Dogs killing another dog? Wow. Sounds like some major dog aggression issues. When I introduced a second dog to my first, she wasn't thrilled. But if I thought they were going too far, I would break them up. But they were never getting to a point where they were actually doing harm! Wether you are a human or a dog, you don't let that dog go on being beat up and scared all the time. That has got to damage a dog's confidence and I don't think dominant dogs want to break another dog, just show who is boss. Had I dealt with my dogs Millan's way, I would have done the alpa roll to my little dog. Luckily, no force was involved at all. No fear and no pain. Now my dogs are best friends! How did I get there? I used positive methods, patience, and no negativity was involved! Now doesn't that sound better then using force? And the worse the case, the more gentle you need to be.
I don't understand your second answer. The dog Millan was clinging to wasn't playing, she was terrified. She wasn't calm or submissive. She was scared. Of course, I wouldn't try to force commands on a scared dog. But Millan had no problem with it.
I don't have a kid, you're parenting techniques are up to you. But when I was little my parents did not hold me until I stopped writhing. That was bound to get me more worked up! If I was having that severe of a fit, they waited until I could calm down. Remember, dogs have teeth. By actually holding a writhing dog, you are actually putting yourself in danger's way. When a dog is fearful, that dog does not run around foaming at the mouth snarling at people. With the dogs I see, if they're scared I won't provoke them. It's dangerous for me, and them. You think it's safer to pin a dog down until it calms don't. I'm afraid I just don't understand that.
What's more cruel? That's kind of a trick question. As I said, I think forcing fear on a dog is the exact same as hitting. If a dog is going to have to live in fear like that it's whole life...then euthanization would be kinder. When some dogs go into an animal shelter, they are a wreck. A lot have to be put down because they were abused. One of my dogs was abused by her previous owner. My dog is doing great, but she'll never be at the same level as dogs being treated right from the beginning. Had she been with that same person a little bit longer, it may have been too late.
That dog Millan was 'treating' wasn't at the end of the road yet. If you ask me, she had never been taught right from wrong. So instead of teaching it to her, he uses force! That's unacceptable. Especially if a dog is at the end of the line, using that kind of treatment is awful. Would you use hitting to 'help' a dog that has already been hit? I hope not. And that is exactly what Millan is doing to some of these dogs.
As you said in earlier posts, Millan's way is not the only way to train. And it's not! So to assume that Millan is in reality the 'last hope' for these dogs is too bad. Millan helps many dogs, I can't disagree with that. Does he use the best ways? Absolutely not! The behavior problems that the dogs he sees have, aren't the only cases in the world. I'm sure many other people got along just fine without his help and using different methods. In fact, I know it.
I think the main difference we're seeing is the dog's reaction to the whole thing. You saw that dog relaxing, and calming down. I saw that dog scared, recognizing she was helpless, and giving up. There's a big, big difference between the two. I don't think the dog was recognizing what Millan was doing to her. If she had, maybe my opinion would be different. But a dog won't realize that. So I don't see how he was relaxing the dog at all.

"I don't understand your second answer. The dog Millan was clinging to wasn't playing, she was terrified." I never said that dog was playing, Where did you get that from? I only stated that a dog should be submissive to the owners and not dominate in anyway and that a dog can be playful but still be submissive. Some dogs have a dominate rough play. Cesar does not hit the dogs. Also that dog didn't bite because she was scared, and if she was so scared she wouldn't be able to stop shaking or trying to get away. Also I don't hit my dogs and never had to hold my dogs down. Holding a dog down is only for extreme cases like the ones Cesar takes on. He only takes the extreme cases for his show, that is why you may see it more than you like. I have never had to hold down my son either because he doesn't have tantrums but if he did and if it was out of anger or frustration then maybe I would if I felt that he could hurt himself by doing so. Same goes for the dogs. I also do stop any escaltions before any dog gets hurt but I know that with a pack of dogs (not just one like in your situation), a pack if left unattended with an unstable new dog may kill or seriuosly injure the other dog. Becuase with a pack of dogs, if one dog goes after an unstable dog the rest will back up the other dog. If the unstable dog quickly becomes submissive then they will back off but if not then there is a problem. I have seen this alot with people that think they know what they are doing but introduce a new dog incorrectly. Cesar finds out the dogs history before he even looks at the dog and determines what the cause is first. With fearfull dogs he does not pin them down, he gains their trust. The episodes you must be watching sound like the dominate agressive cases. Do you remember the name of the dog so I can watch it again on my DVD to see which one you are talking about?

I believe the dog's name was Snowflake/Snowball?
That was not an extreme/last case dog he was dealing with. No way. I know because I've actually had that same problem with my dog. And she's over it! And no pinning to the ground. Not to mention, my dog had been abused, the other dog was just not trained properly. Which dog do you think was worse off? Probably my dog. But I didn't have to use methods that Millan used. I was very gentle about it, and I even think my dog had fun!
I don't think all dogs shake uncontrollably when they're scared. Some might. Others will bite. Some might shut down. All depends on the dog. And none of those are something I would want to put my dog through!
Still sounds like a dog aggression problem. Dogs killing another dog? Even wolves don't kill other wolves! The purpose is not to kill, it's to come out on top. So if a dog gets a leg ripped open and backs away, the winning dog won't kill that dog. It's not normal dog behavior. Especially when introducing a new dog. If the other dogs are having that big of a problem with a new dog, then those dogs need help! Serious dog aggression and no new dog should be added until you get that problem fixed.
Millan may gain scared dog's trust. But with aggressive dogs looks like he shows them fear first. The thing is, it was NOT an extreme case he was dealing with, not at all. I know a way he could have easily dealt with that problem and you don't have to put the poor dog in such a position as he did her. What he did to that dog I classify as hitting. It doesn't look like he hit her. And he didn't, physically. But he mentally harmed her.
I'm not watching dominant aggressive dogs episodes. Maybe a little bit of aggression. But no dominance issues at all. For example: let's say you grow up learning the only way to get what you want is by hitting. So you go around hitting people. And it works! You're not doing it to be cruel, mean, nasty, or dominant. You were just never taught any other way. The same with that dog. She wasn't being dominant at all! She was just taught at a young age that by biting, she gets what she wants. It worked, and no one corrected her. As always, Millan chucked the word 'dominance' in there, and it wasn't a dominant case at all. How can she learn, if she hadn't been taught?

I don't know why it put me as Anonymous. Marie, I agree with you in that dogs shouldn't be abused but in my opinion Cesar is not abusing them, he stays calm until the dog calms down. He may do a quick touch to the neck but by no means does it hurt the animal just breaks his concentration away from the negative behavior. He also only holds an animal down in extreme situations. I have only done that on 2-3 occasions, not with my own animals but other dogs that have had serious issues. I didn't scare them to death and they were not scared of me after that, but they did respect me and were happy to see me after that like I helped them out of a stressfull situation. For a dog being in a dominate position is very stressful to the dog. Now this isn't something you do with already fearful dogs but with dominate agressive dogs. With fearful dogs you have to let them come to you when they feel more comfortable, and Cesar also shows this by entering a fearful dogs kennel backward and hunching down facing away from the dog until the dog becomes curious then he will slowly slip the leash on and go for a walk, which also gains trust.

Chris,
I really disagree with a lot of his methods. I think his answer for everything is dominance when it's not. And while I don't know if 'abuse' is the right word. I don't think he handles all of his situations as he should. I have no problem with a quick touch to the neck. I don't touch my dog's necks. But if they are doing something they're not supposed to I do distract them.
My biggest problem was the dog, Snowflake he worked with. She wasn't an extreme case and he didn't handle the situation well.
I have a question though: how is it stressful for a dog to be dominant? Millan says dogs do a lot of things that show dominance. It really makes them seem power hungry. But if that only makes them stressed, why are they trying to be dominant?
If I was dealing with an aggressive dog, I would do the same thing. I would earn that dog's trust. I would slip on a leash and go for a walk. I would reward good behavior and ignore bad behavior. I would train and build that dog's confidence in me as well as himself. http://www.dogboston.com/askjo/askjocesarmillan.htm
Check out this. I thought it was great and it explains how I feel about Millan. But Millan was also self-trained. He didn't take classes, didn't read about it or anything. That's not bad! It shows he knows dogs and has a great bond with them. But it also shows that he did learn everything from the dogs. And when dogs don't see people as other dogs, it doesn't make any sense.

In a pack of dogs the Alpha dog always has to be watchful of his packmates, surroundings and provide the resources. If the human doesn't take this role then the dog does. Dogs do alot to show dominance because most humans don't, it's not because the dog is power hungry but trying to fill the position of leader because it is necessary for survival. I'm not talking aggression here just leadership/dominance.

I read that link but it really doesn't state that much, also what website is it from? I am currently reading the book from that link "Dogs Behaving Badly". Although I don't like the statement on this link "To call his operation a psychology center is a total paradox," says veterinary behaviorist Nicholas Dodman, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Tufts University's Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine and author of "Dogs Behaving Badly". "I think, like a bullfighter, he understands how to approach and work around a dog, but thereafter he stops. He doesn't understand separation anxiety. I doubt he knows what obsessive-compulsive behavior is. Basically, with a smile, he's going to war."
I do not agree with that statement. I have seen where Cesar approaches dog with separation anxiety and obsessive-compulsive behavior. He doesn't go to war with these dogs. With the Separation issue he teaches the owner that before leaving the dog alone to exercise it then condition it to you leaving for very short periods of time and then gradually increasing the time and also giving the dog something to do like a toy or kong filled with frozen treats for example. Watch the episode #19 season One with Sunshine the Doberman. And with obsessive-compulsive behaviors he tries to find breed specific activities for the dogs to do what they were bred for to help them. For example herding sheep for herding breeds that like to chase their tail or spin in circles.

Another quote I don't like "with these dogs. Imagine if there was a new Dr. Phil for children, and he said, 'If your kid is playing too many video games, get a big paddle and whack him on the head.' People would be incensed!"
Cesar does NOT whack his dogs on the head!

No you don't have to be phisical to be dominate, the best way to be dominate is to be calm and assertive. Sometimes though a physical correction is needed when a verbal correction isn't enough.

If he didn't take classes, why then is everyone negative saying that he bases his learnings from a wolf study? He learned from the dogs not the wolves!

"And when dogs don't see people as other dogs, it doesn't make any sense"
No they don't see us as dogs but they do understand the language of dog psycology and when we treat them like dogs not people!

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Chris!
I totally agree with you. I've noticed that a lot of Cesar's critics resort to major exaggeration or outright falsehood in order to say something critical, such as the example you just cited about whacking a child over the head with a paddle. I read something sent to me by our friend Gia written by Ian Dunbar, and he engaged in the same sort of exaggeration. This is very disappointing, because I like both Dodman and Dunbar, but it does create the suspicion that their egos are getting involved in their critiques. It seems like they can't deal with someone whose view is so different from theirs. Our friend Marie does the same thing. Inevitably, when she talks about Cesar, she starts talking about hitting. But I've never, ever seen Cesar hit a dog in two whole seasons. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he does, but there is no reason to be inaccurate in describing his methods.
KP

Neither of you should take things so literally! Of course he's never hit a dog. And i've even said that! It's an example. He's not physically harming a dog, but he can harm them mentally. That's even worse then hitting in my book! When we say 'hitting' it just means harm. Millan uses heavy-handed methods to do things that can be accomplished gently.
Chris, the obsessive and separation anxiety thing is a good example! That is the proper way to deal with something. Why can't he deal with all problems like that?
Honestly, I have no idea where Millan got the whole wolf thing. It's very possible that the area he was living in had dog/wolf hybrids. In a case like that, he will see a lot of wolf behavior. But dogs aren't wolves! Dogs understand dog talk from other dogs. But they know we're humans so they won't expect it from us.
KP,
notice how a couple of very respectable dog behaviorists disagree with Millan's methods. Does that mean their ego is getting in the way? Or that they're right? I think it means they're right. Millan's ways are vastly different and very old-school. But, KP, we got on a discussion on your other blog about dog crates! I know you think it is harmful, but it's not. Saying a dog gets stockholm syndrome from a crate is like saying I get stockholm syndrome from my books! It's a training method that I use. Maybe you also can't deal with someone who's view is so different then yours?
At the beginning of this particular blog you said that the sight of a dog getting shocked was painful to watch. I had that same exact feeling when I saw Millan hold that writhing dog. There was no physical pain. But it looked to me like that dog was still getting harmed.
Again, please read over what I said and please don't take things so literally.

>>>KP's Response:

Marie,
When your arguments become illogical like all of the above, there's just nothing I can say in response.
KP

I was doing some more thinking, and thought of something else.
What, in your opinion, is a sign of dominance? Most people see the following as a sign: winning a game, walking through a door before the human, walking ahead of the human on a leash, jumping up on a human, etc.
I find it really hard to believe any of those are a sign of a dominate dog. All of those things, I let my dogs do. Now, if those are signs of dominance wouldn't I have seen some problems arise? Both my dogs would be showing signs of dominance. Signs of dominance include: snapping at me, barking at me, disobeying well-known commands such as 'sit', resists being handles, growls and glares at you. None of which, my dogs do. If I tell my dogs to 'sit' they sit. Then I let them walk out the door before me. Shouldn't I have noticed a difference in their behavior in letting them do all these 'dominant' acts?

I think we can learn more about dogs by looking at wolves. But probably opposite from what you are thinking. An alpha wolf is in control of the resources. The alpha wolf is the one who does the breeding. Really, more psychological then physical parts are played in the dominance role of wolves. The omega wolves aren't constantly fighting the alpha for leadership of the pack. The alpha wolf can be challenged, but usually when old age takes him. So then if dogs are so much like wolves, why are we using physical ways to promote leadership? And why would my dogs be constantly challenging my leadership? I do own all the resources in my house. I have control of the food, water, and shelter. Now, if an alpha wolf lost those resources, he may have some problems. But I have not. I have control and will always have control. So, if I own all the resources, and there's no problem, then why would my dogs be challenging my position? You can't say it's to get control of resources, because my dogs have them! If what you say is true, then my dog wins at tug-of-war for what reason? She has all the resources she needs and if she takes 'leadership' the resources won't get any better.

I'll use the dog Snowflake as an example. Snowflakes owners obviously had control of the resources. She why did she need to show dominance? It's all about what Snowflake learned, or, didn't learn. What did Snowflake want? She wanted to stay on the bed. What didn't she learn? That 'off' means 'off'. What did she learn? She got her way by snapping. There was no dominance in there. How could there be? That dog wasn't 'disobeying', she couldn't. She had never been taught what to do in that situation except snapping. So, where did Millan get dominance from? When I got my first dog, she didn't know the command 'sit'. So if I told her to 'sit' she wouldn't have done it. She didn't know how. She wasn't being dominant, she had never been taught. Now, if I tell her to sit, she does. She knows what it means. Figuratively speaking, Snowflake needed to learn 'sit' before she could obey.

Whenever I see Millan doing an 'alpha roll' I cringe. Only with the intent of kill, does a dog flip another over. A submissive dog should be willingly showing its belly. Let's say I have a fear aggressive dog. Why is that dog aggressive? Because she's scared. She's not trying to be dominant, she feels cornered and the only way to get out is to attack. Why would I do the alpha roll to her? She is scared! There's already a major chance she will bite and rolling her over, like a dog trying to kill another dog, is not going to help.

I think Millan is waaaay off on many of his diagnosis's. Even if he treats a situation in the right way, his diagnosis is still off. To me, that's a big problem. It's one thing to disagree on how to deal with a training method, it's another to disagree on the diagnosis. Yes, I do watch his show every time I see it on TV. I have read one of his books and I have researched his methods. My opinion on him is something I made up on my own. It's not that I merely 'dislike' his methods, it's that I think they're dangerous, way off, and don't always work, or, don't always work in the best way. On top of that, they're old methods. New ones have come out. Today, most dog trainers agree praise works better then negativity. Millan still sticks with negativity. It is not up to me to tell you how to train a dog. It's your dog, it's your choice. But I can have an opinion. In my opinion house training a dog by sticking his nose in urine is cruel and just plain stupid. But no one forced anyone to stop doing that. It's by pure opinion and research that that stopped. I have my opinion and I plan on sharing it with everyone who supports The Dog Whisperer.

I think it's safe to say Marie does not like Cesar for whatever reason. It's useless to try to reason with her because she simply will not understand and just defend her opinion even more. What would Cesar do with a dog that was stubborn and simply would not budge? Too bad they don't have a Cesar Millan for humans, I think Marie is too old for the Nanny.

Anybody watched south park episode featuring Cesar Millan. I think Marie's lack of animal understanding is due to the fact that she has no family of her own. My wife was the same way with our dog, she even talked to the dog and pampered as if it were a human baby. It all changed when our first child was born, she still loves and pets the dog but she now sees him as a dog and not a human baby.

In Maries mind no matter how much she denies it, she sees her dogs as her part of her human family and not as pets. No need to reply Marie because there is nothing you haven't said already.

I bet you are a bid rachel ray fan aren't you, do you also cook for your dogs Marie? I know you do, but feel free to deny it.

Marie, I really like and agree with most of what you wrote, but I'd like to
and clear up a few misconceptions I think you might have:

"Signs of dominance include: snapping at me, barking at me, disobeying well-known commands such as 'sit', resists being handles, growls and glares at you."

Snapping at you would be a sign that the dog is feeling afraid/defensive of you, or guarding a resource. Barking at you could mean the dog is bored, wants you to do something, or is afraid. Disobeying well-known commands mean that more proofing needs to be done, and more training needs to be done to boot. Resisting being handled means that the dog doesn't feel comfortable being handled, and needs more positive experiences doing this. Dogs do things on a "will this help me to survive/does this feel good basis" not a "will this move me up a notch in the social hierarchy" basis. Humans have a concept of kings and queens, bosses and majors, dogs do not. They live purely in the moment. Because they are not capable of abstract reasoning to a large extent, they can simply not abstractly reason the concept of "leadership" or "alpha."

"An alpha wolf is in control of the resources. The alpha wolf is the one who does the breeding. Really, more psychological then physical parts are played in the dominance role of wolves. The omega wolves aren't constantly fighting the alpha for leadership of the pack."

Wolves in the wild don't have an alpha. Biologists are finding that wolves interbreed, and do NOT mate for life. Wolves do share resources, especially when they are pooped out from hunting. Wolves in captivity, who have been thrown together DO fight often. They DO guard food (which they haven't killed themselves and so they are very high strung) and sexual partners. Wolves in the wild largely don't really care whose having sex with whom, or whose eating what.

There are a lot of misconceptions out there about wolf behavior. Dogs are a completely different species than wolves, with a completely different niche that they fill, and completely different physical structure and behavior motor patterns. To understand dogs, I think its best to study dogs in a natural environment (village dogs) as opposed to wolves.
They are just such different species, that its hard to compare the two accurately.

I don't think biologist are the most qualified experts on wolf behavior. On the contrary all scientific studies show that wolves in the wild do have an alpha. I would like to know your sources for stating that wolves do not behave this way.

I agree with Gil. And Gia, I would also like to know where you got your resources from in regards to wolves. I don't know what type of wolf you are talking about but the wolves around here (North America/Canada) do have an Alpha male and an alpha female. Occasionally a lesser ranking male or female will breed out of rank if not watched. I have also seen this behavior in a pack of dogs (believe it or not). In the dog pack when the lesser male tried to mount one of the females the alpha male and any other higher ranking male or female would correct to lower ranking male by nudging him in the neck area. they wouldn't start a fight but simply give a correction. Dogs can be closer to wolves than people think. They have the same exact DNA. Alot of people used to and still do breed wolves to dogs to get hybrids. Also some purebred AKC lines actually used wolves at one time to vary the gene pool before the stud books were closed. Some of these breeds were German Shepherds and Huskies.

Hi, K.P. I apologize for getting in late on the Cesar Millan blog. I was curious since I'm an avid watcher of the show and have two of his books. My comment may not match up but I'll try. I suggested Cesar to a good friend of mine thinking she would get to see the episode about the couple Jeffery and Ace. They had three tiny dogs that fought each other all the time and Jeffery had resorted to screaming at them. Ace was concerned but asked Cesar to help them. Cesar came and explained how to correct their behavior(Jeffery&Ace) so they could experience the peace they were seeking. He gave them the walking advice as usual but went on to show them how to be calm and assertive. Honestly, it just jumped out at me finally what Cesar means when he says calm and assertive. And it was physically more about him than the dogs. He quietly hushed their growling at one another and breathed in a calm way. The dogs were quiet and all on his lap. Then he handed them to Jeffery who accomplished the same thing. Ace also commented it was the first time he got it that it was more about them than the dogs. But about my friend who I wanted her to watch the show, well she watched a re-run of another show and Cesar was tailoring his remarks in a different manner due to the seriousness of the case which was the woman could be paralized if she couldn't get control over the dog. She had already been in an accident and it was imperative to calm the dog down for her safety. Needless, to say my friends comment on Cesar was that he was very bossy. And I don't think she enjoyed the program. I know my friend loves dogs but Cesar not so much. I'm not trying to push but if they re-run the episode I was thinking of I might at least ask her to take a look. I wonder if the nature of how Cesar takes each case as it is presented to him is how an uninitiated new viewer sees him? People in my family who never like to watch my choice of tv shows, liked him first time around and now they are fans more than me coz now I hear them quoting him. Go figure lol
Thanks for your blog K.P.

No matter, what ppl said..I really like Ceasar..He is a real good and warmhearted man. Especially, when he rehabilitates the three dogs from 'hurricane katrina' I cried alot..He loves dogs and helps them as much as he can...

I like this part best!
----------------------------
When good dogs go bad, there is a one man for their best friend
'Ceasar Milan'!!

Ceasar said
No dong are too much for me to handle, I rehabilitate dogs and train people! I am a 'dog whisperer'

I watch his show every sing le day with my Jack russel!!!

If you're looking for a 100% humane and effective dog trainer then you should look to Jan Fennell - Please read her book The Dog Listener. She doesn't agree with shouting, choking or forcing a dog to do anything & passionately objects to the use of any so called training aids such as check chains, electric collars, citronella spray or anything else. She gets the most amazing results & her methods have saved many dogs who would otherwise have been put to death in a shelter because they were unsuitable to be rehomed.

This is my first time posting here, and I wish to share my opinions on Caesar Millan. He seems like he can get down to the dog's level, not only with communication but with body language as well. I don't think he's cruel, he does what is necessary to make sure the dog realizes that the bad behavior won't be tolerated. I've seen episodes where he allows himself to be bitten, and once the dog sees it doesn't get a rise out of him it will stop, or he will have the dog stop by making the noise and tapping it with the "jaw" method. I have a german shepherd/rottweiler mix, and in all honesty my mom taught him his manners. She passed away over three years ago, but my dog sees me and my dad as the alphas of the house. He listens to us, shows great intelligence, and I believe is very happy here. He knows different commands and will use them to get food/treats, but sometimes I ignore them because he knows that we eat before he does and he isn't going to get human food all the time. He gets along with other dogs just fine, I take him for walks about two times a week, and he is submissive to other dogs if they try to approach him. He sniffs, he might play some, but after knowing the other dog he will go about his own business. I wouldn't trade my dog for anything in the world, and I'd love to get a companion for him. I know that sometimes bringing another dog in will take some getting used to on his part, as with a couple of times we watched my sister's dog, a dacshound(?)/terrier mix. The little thing would terrorize my dog to no end! But he knew when to tell it he didn't like it and would paw until the dog went away. If he tries to stand over us or keep his paw over our arms we believe he is trying to be dominant and automatically stop him from doing it. I know I got off-topic here but I just want to say that Caesar is a good trainer and if my dog needed help, I would pay for the tickets and such to fly my dog to his psychology center and have him help me for sure.

Marie,
As a parent and a dog owner I am glad you decided NOT to reproduce! Yours would be the type of child who ruins dinner for everyone else around them. Screaming and throwing a fit should NEVER be acceptable, from either dog or child. By the way, scare a child to death?? That shows your lack of experience! I'm glad that you believe so strongly in spoiling your dogs, just don't ever bring them to the dog park because they won't know how to behave around other dogs. People like you are the reason kids are shooting up middle schools, it is LACK of RULES that lead to disruptive behavior most of the time. Do you really want to stick a binkie or treat in their faces every time they whimper?? No wonder our society is going to shite.

After reading all of these comments I felt I had to put in my two cents. I like Cesar and I think he does amazing work with "red zone" dogs. I also think he gives a lot of people hope and the confidence they need when dealing with an unruly dog. But I don't think his hands-on methods should be used on puppies or non-aggressive dogs. I'm not sold on the "pack leader" theory and I'm quite sure our dogs know we are not dogs. This doesn't mean we shouldn't provide structure and boundaries though. I agree with Marie, in that positive based methods should always be implemented before anything else. Most balanced dogs will respond to this amazingly well. But since Marie has never dealt with an aggressive dog, this is where her argument gets lost. After using counter conditioning, desensitization, "NILF", and clicker training for over a year now with three positive-based dog trainers, my aggressive dog is still not responding the way I need him to. It has helped some, but not enough. He will not let anyone handle him, ie clip his nails, etc. Vets cannot even give him an exam. Some of his aggression is fear-based, but a lot of it is not. I really don't think you can label the aggression when a dog has learned that biting gets him whatever he wants. Unfortunately, once it's ingrained in them to respond by biting, treats just aren't going to cut it. So far, I have not used Cesar's methods because, frankly, I think they should be a last resort. But I am now considering them by doing careful research. I much prefer Victoria Stilwell's approach, as I know it works terrifically well in most situations..but even it seems to have it's limitations with aggressive dogs. Anyway, my point is that it's always in the dogs best interest to start with positive reinforcement, and go from there. I don't see why anyone would disagree with that, unless they're looking for a quick-fix.

Oh and I take offense at Gil's remark about cooking for dogs. That certainly does not mean everyone who does this is a permissive, misinformed dog owner. On the contrary...we obviously know more about dogs than you do. Dog food is the equivalent of feeding your children only fortified cereal every day for their entire lives. Not so healthy!

Just found this blog and have to say I am a fan of Cesar Milan's. Watching his shows enabled me to finally get my two dogs to stop rushing the door when vistors come. They are just excited and playful neither of them is agressive, but it is bothersome if the guest isn't a dog person. Learning to control "own the space" around the door, turned out to be quickly effective.
That said the real reason I am writing is I just saw the episode with Patti LaBelle and I was horrified with the conditions in which she keeps her dogs. The were able to rescue the African Mastif from his jail, but there were other dogs on the property living in little concrete jails, with no contact and no excercise. If I was her dog, I'd want to kill her too! Anyone else see the episode and have comments?

some dogs cant learn from traditional behavior.

If all other options have not worked, then I don't see how its so wrong to use a shock collar if it works.

If it means the dog wont have to be put down, how is that so inhumane? A small shock to save its life if nothing else work?

Stop being so one-sided.

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Kai,
How would you like to get an unexpected "small shock" to your neck for no apparent reason? I bet you would consider it "inhumane" then.
KP

Wow! I love cesar, crates are not inhumane. He does use positive techniques when the dogs submit he alway make sure he associate it with a message. Dogs as pets need to supervised all the time not have their way in the house. When busy or absent from the dog for a couple of hours use a create, correctly.Just had to respone to creates being in humane. Cesar isn`t either

>>>KP's Response:

Hi Anthony,
You can't prove that a crate is humane just by saying it over and over again. I don't see any evidence in your message to prove that crates are humane. Logic dictates that they are inhumane because it is against a dog's instinct to want to be locked inside a cage. Most dogs don't get into any trouble when left alone at home, and the ones who do are probably frustrated because they haven't gotten enough exercise or they're left alone for too long.
KP

I follow Milan’s dog whispering show with amazement and respect for Cesar Milan himself. We have learned many new things from his shows, techniques our trainers won’t reveal to us. Milan is basic, down to earth, smart and makes a lot of sense. As for all the sensitive folk here: some dogs were on death row, to be put down, because of learned aggressive behaviour and Milan made a difference in their lot.
I just adopted 2 ridgebacks from our local pound. We already have implemented some of the techniecks Milan has showed us and they are working.. The dogs had little interaction with humans and when walking they pulled us all over the street. We tried everything: love, cuddles, soft words, harsh words, lollies, and rewards, nothing worked.

Well, one trip with the dreaded “Chock chain” plus assertive atitude from us and the issue was behind us.

Isn’t funny, we live in a society with a high level of dysfunctional children due to lack of discipline and out of balance parenting. We dare not to bring back proven disciplines that work, We see the result everyday in our well balanced society.

The same is with our dogs, out of balance training results in dysfunctional dogs. Most shows show the “Humans” being out of touch, therefore Milan tells us he is training the human first... says it all.

By the way I like to see any of his opponents stepping into Milan’s pack.

Greetings from Oz

If you are looking for someone who uses most if not all of Mr. Milan's good points and uses treats and more "positve" methods check out British trainer Victoria Stilwell's show on Animal Planet It's Me or the Dog